Ep 91: Decolonizing Wealth: Confronting Exploitation and Healing Wounds with Edgar Villanueva

Uncategorized Nov 10, 2023

What is your relationship with money?

Do you have a healthy or neutral relationship with money? Or do you fall into the common extremes of worrying about it, constantly thinking about acquiring more money, or avoiding knowing what is happening with your finances or checking out on your responsibilities around money?

And what is your relationship with giving away your money? Is it part of a spiritual practice, a tax write-off, or an extension of your values?

We learn early how wealth can impact our future trajectory, well-being, and ability to earn and save it.

And there are constant opportunities to donate our money–to charities, to politics, to nonprofits, to do something good and get a tax write-off. It feels good to feel like we’re doing something to help.

But we also don’t have to look far to find critiques of social programs supporting those who lack essential resources or critiques of the many tax loopholes the wealthiest in our country benefit from, especially when it comes to philanthropic giving.

Today’s guest helps connect the dots on how our relationships with money and the industry of philanthropy needs to change.

Edgar Villanueva is an award-winning author, activist, and expert on race, wealth, and philanthropy issues. Villanueva is the Principal of the Decolonizing Wealth Project and Liberated Capital and the author of the bestselling book Decolonizing Wealth (2018, 2021). He advises various organizations, including national and global philanthropies, Fortune 500 companies, and entertainment, on social impact strategies to advance racial equity from within and through their investment strategies. Villanueva holds a BSPH and MHA from the Gillings Global School of Public Health at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He is an enrolled member of the Lumbee Tribe and resides in New York City.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

Why we need to recognize that colonialism–past and present–is systemic in our social and political institutions
How to begin healing from an extractive and exploitative definition of money to a version that honors what we value
Why acknowledgment and grief need to happen before we jump to take action
How to enter a process of decolonization without appropriation or getting bogged down in guilt
The profound impacts of colonialism on philanthropy and charity in concept and practice in the United States
How we can begin to invest differently in charitable giving to make real impacts

Learn more about Edgar Villaneuva:

Learn more about Rebecca:

Resources:

Scroll Down for The Full Episode Transcript:

Rebecca Ching: All right, y’all! Welcome to episode 91 as I countdown the final 10 episodes before we hit the big 100! Before we get into this episode, which I am so excited to share with you, I just want to encourage you all, if you haven't already, to leave a rating, a review, and share this episode with those that you think may benefit from it. It really helps get the word out and gets this episode recommended to other people. So thank you for those who’ve been faithfully listening. Welcome to all the new listeners, and I am really excited to get into today’s episode!

[Inspirational Intro Music]

Edgar Villanueva: I love this country. I want us to be the country that we set out and aspired to be, and I know that the only way for us to get there is for us to come to terms with history. But the truth is, when we think about money, present day, when we think about wealth, our entire economic system in this country was built off extraction and exploitation.

[Inspirational Intro Music]

Rebecca Ching: All right. Question for you: what is your relationship with money? Yes, money. Do you have a healthy relationship or a neutral relationship with money, or do you fall into maybe some of the common extremes of worrying about money, constantly thinking about it, or wanting to acquire more of it, or maybe the other side of the pendulum where, instead, you avoid knowing what is happening with your finances, or maybe you just check out altogether of your responsibilities around money. And related to money, I’m curious what is your relationship with giving away your money? Is donating your money a part of a spiritual practice or is it a tax write off or an extension of your values?

2:06

Now, we don't have to look far to find a news story or article critiquing social programs supporting those who don't have a lot of money and lack essential resources, or we also can find messages railing against the many tax loopholes the wealthiest in our country benefit from in our tax laws. There’s so much around money, and what we have, who doesn't have it, how we get more of it, what we do with it, and we receive constant opportunities to donate our money to charities, to political campaigns, to nonprofits, to do something good or just get a tax write off. We learn early how wealth can impact our future trajectory, our wellbeing, our ability to earn and save it.

Now, I love supporting charities and causes that align with my values and beliefs, and if I’m honest, it feels good to help others. And yet, the more I learn about who holds the most resources in our country and how they obtained their immense levels of wealth, along with the philanthropy industry, the more I feel duped and also complicit.

Now, I am so grateful for the many I continue to learn from on these matters around money and resources and all the systems that hold all these things, and today’s guest is at the top of the list as he connected the dots on how my relationship with money and how the industry of philanthropy needs to change, and how I can do so without feeling overwhelmed but instead energized and aligned and even healed.

4:01

He also helped me see how my desire to help others, and feel good in the process, has been used to further the exact systems and practices that I see now as the problem.

I'm Rebecca Ching, and you're listening to The Unburdened Leader, the show that goes deep with humans who navigate life’s challenges and lead in their own ways. Our goal is to learn how they address the burdens they carry, how they learn from them and become better and more impactful leaders of themselves and others.

I grew up in an upper-middle class neighborhood, but my family was in the older part of our community. The homes were not the shiny new homes in the planned communities that were popping up seemingly overnight around us. Friends I grew up with just a few houses away would move to these newer areas, and I would hear my parents talk about the new developments with almost this air of judgment like it was a moral failing. My neighbors who moved to the new developments had a little more money than we did.

Now, both my parents grew up in modest upbringings and I would regularly hear judgements towards those with more resources. Looking back, I suspect that judgment was layered with some deep envy and deep frustration that things were so hard for them financially. But as a kid, this confused me. I quickly internalized how many people connected money (a bigger house, and a larger plot of land) to your worthiness and status, and that obtaining these markers of status connected to what so many desired: power and influence.

When I started to work on Capitol Hill in The Senate, the attacks on those who depended on social services also came into focus as I waded through the rhetoric attacking these individuals along with corporations who protected the resources though lobbying for tax write offs and legal loopholes.

6:14

The haves and the have-nots, the countless charities, nonprofits, schools and other organizations fighting for grant money, donations, and financial support from the federal government also immigrated into all that noise because in my role overseeing all things scheduling and advance, I would move through the invitations for meeting requests with my former boss from all of these incredible causes, raising money for research and treatments and cures to social causes like support for domestic survivors and kids in need along with museums and so much more.

I would sift through many charity and philanthropic organizations asking my former boss to co-sponsor their respective event. Now, the list of co-sponsors in all of these events was a list of who’s who in the DC and often New York City power circles (the “haves”) helping raise money for those in need (the “have nots”). And I would feel overwhelmed by the need and what seemed like limited resources. As I would share my concerns with my fellow DC staffers, I noted how hardened some of my colleagues seemed around everyone lobbying for money. They would talk about certain groups and people with distancing or cynical or othering language that left me often feeling like I needed a shower. There was this sense for many of these folks that if you didn't have resources, you weren't working hard enough and you were to blame for your struggles by some, not all through.

8:01

My boss was always a champion for those who did not have a voice. But his voice was sadly not the norm even back in the day when I worked in DC. Many of those without access to power would hire connected lobbying firms. It’s still a practice today. And I connected with some really fun and dynamic people through these different businesses, and some were great. Others fit the stereotype of the lobbyist to a tee. And I would watch lobbyist after lobbyist come into the office with representatives from the group they were paid to lobby for walking in behind their dynamic reps. And I got to meet some really cool people like actors and musicians, artists, authors, scientists, activists, and many more over the years.

But one meeting still echoes in my heart and mind 25 years later. I don't recall the lobbyist’s name, but I remember their clients. They were leaders from a handful of individual Indigenous tribes seeking appropriations, approval for casinos they wanted to build and how to protect their growing resources from these casinos.

I don't remember much that was said in the meeting, but I do remember how I felt when I made eye contact with the dynamic, incredible presence of these Indigenous leaders. And I’m unsure of what they were feeling, but now as a trained trauma therapist, I now know the look I saw in these eyes, which was burdened with trauma, was checked out, defeated, and numb. They were lobbying to protect the money they made and their casinos and not to be taxed on land that was already stolen from them. I felt a chill in my soul during that meeting that I only recently connected with how completely problematic and even violent that whole dynamic was, along with all that led to that moment.

10:07

I’m seeing now, unlearning and learning continued to be a huge deconstruction process for me and one we all need to pursue with humility, curiosity, and compassion when we look at money, the systems that hold our money, the things that we value, the things that give us security and who has them and who doesn't have access to them. Today’s guest challenges us to see, check this out, money as medicine that can heal the traumas from colonization and exploitation. Yeah.

Now, if you’ve been around me the last couple of years, you have heard me at least once, probably twice, talk about this book authored by today’s guest. It’s been such a helpful, generous, and convicting book that gave me an actionable roadmap to understanding the interaction of colonization, capitalism, and philanthropy, and what I can actually do (what we all can do) to change our relationship with money and the systems around money. He’s also founded this incredible organization that is changing the existing systems that move and control wealth, whether it’s through philanthropy, investing, all here in America.

Now, Edgar Villanueva is an award-winning author, activist, expert on race, wealth, and philanthropy issues. Edgar is the principal of the Decolonizing Wealth Project and Liberated Capital, along with the author of the best-selling book (the one I brag about a lot and tell people they need to read) Decolonizing Wealth. Edgar advises various organizations including national and global philanthropies, Fortune 500 companies, entertainment all on social impact strategies to advance racial equity from within and through their investment strategies. Villanueva holds a BSPH and an MHA from The Gillings Global School of Public Health at The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. He is an enrolled member of the Lumbee Tribe and resides in New York City.

12:27

Now, pay attention to when Edgar shares his metaphor of the colonizer virus, how he explains it, and how he notes we all have it. Listen for when Edgar talks about our understanding of building wealth and how our entire system was built on extraction and exploitation and how we can take actionable, connecting steps to change how we do wealth and capital in our country. And notice when Edgar talks about the importance of grief as a starting point in decolonizing wealth. Now, please welcome Edgar Villanueva to The Unburdened Leader podcast.

Edgar Villanueva, welcome to The Unburdened Leader podcast. I am really looking forward to this conversation!

Edgar Villanueva: Thank you for having me! It’s an honor to be here.

Rebecca Ching: I want to start off talking about colonialism and hearing from you how does colonialism impact how we think about wealth and who controls that wealth.

Edgar Villanueva: Yeah, great question and a great way to start. Colonization and colonialism are forces that have been at play in our country here in The States and around the world for so long that the dynamics of and the impact of these forces are almost unseen or unfilled. We haven't lived or experienced living in a place where these dynamics weren't at play, so they seem really normal to us.

14:02

Also, when we think about colonialism and colonization, they are both concepts and parts of history that you may have learned about in school that were against really socializing us to this idea of conquering and actually making heroes out of the people who led these types of violent attacks historically.

And so, you know, colonization is sort of glorified and even countries who have been sort of the colonizing powers historically are quite proud of their accomplishments. You know, I’m thinking back to a few years ago when I was in Portugal, in Lisbon, and just kind of walking around, there were just giant monuments just so proud that they came across the seas and conquered and sort of brought their way of life and being to other places.

And so, when we think about all of the effects, historically, of colonization -- and I want to say it’s not just historical. The acts of colonization are still happening all the time all around us, but there are dynamics of colonization that are very pervasive and have impacted our ways of being, our ways of seeing the world, how we behave as leaders, how we behave within our families. I often call it the colonizer virus because it’s almost like this infection that has penetrated every aspect of our culture and our institutions. It’s about dividing and conquering, commanding and controlling, and above all, exploiting.

How this pertains to wealth is pretty clear in some ways when you think about why countries set out to colonize, why they set out to conquer. The gist of it is really all about money. It seems like everything comes back down to money, but it was about going into places who had resources and taking those resources and bringing those back to the crown or keeping them for their own ways and exploiting the planet and people at all costs.

16:14

The horrible thing about a lot of this is that it took place under this sort of God-given superior kind of complex, right? So this kind of modeled faith and those types of ideologies and these types of violent acts it becomes even more convoluted, difficult to unpack. But the truth is, when we think about money, present-day, when we think about wealth, our entire economic system in this country was built off extraction and exploitation.

You know, when we begin to trace the origins of wealth, pretty much any wealthy family in this country, a lot of wealthy corporations and institutions, you don't have to look too far or go too far back to find that what contributed to that bounty of wealth is enslaved labor and the taking of land from Indigenous people, a near genocide of Indigenous people. And even for folks who are like, “Well, my family didn't own slaves,” or whatever, those families still benefited from policies and cultures and ways of being that allowed this to happen back then that continued to show up in our policies and economic policies today.

And so, if your family benefitted from the GI bill, for example, or some type of land grant in the past, these are all policies that were affected by the colonizer virus that contributed to allowing certain groups if people (namely white people) in this country to amass wealth and made it really difficult for people of color to do this same. And even when people of color have played by the rules and have participated in capitalism, as in Tulsa with Black Wall Street, even then wealth has just been destroyed.

18:04

And so, it’s been really, really challenging because of the dynamics of colonization and mindsets around that for our communities to build wealth. And so, it’s all inherently connected from the first moment that colonizers touched the shores of this country to present day.

Rebecca Ching: Yes. And let me follow up with you talked about the colonizing virus. You wrote about that in your book, and you speak about that a lot too. I know for a lot of folks the reflex of being like, “Well, how do I get it out of me? How do I cure it? I don't want to be this bad person!” And then, “Oh, my gosh, if money is bad and everything bad --,” how do people keep from shutting down and how do people heal this virus that we’ve all breathed in our whole lives?

Edgar Villanueva: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one thing that I’ll say is I don't think that money is bad if we can talk a little bit more about that. I kind of grew up with that connotation. I grew up in this particular church that they used to preach, “The love of money is the root of all evil,” and I kind of thought, “Oh, wow, money is this bad thing. I shouldn’t aspire towards building wealth.” And my mother was a domestic worker, I was often in the homes of people who had wealth in our community, and I would think, “Well, they don't seem like bad people,” you know? “They just happen to be born into these families,” or whatever.

And so, my own journey around money and sort of the trauma that could be associated with money and especially the connotation that it’s a bad thing has been something, a part of my healing journey, and a big part of what I write about is understanding that it’s not really about the money. It’s about us as people who created money as a tool for exchange. Money is like a proxy for energy and what we value, and I do think that money can be sort of deployed in ways that are healing and that are in service to with values of reciprocity for all of us.

20:13

The way that we begin thinking about healing from these dynamics of colonization, I’m so glad you asked because it is true, we’re all affected. Regardless of your background, we have all been socialized to a certain way of being. The way that I even test this on myself, this sounds pretty explicit at some level, but when we watch the evening news and we see what’s going on even in the US, that children are being taken away from their homes and put into cages, literally, that thousands of Indigenous women are missing and murdered, we are so kind of numb to these realities that we watch this news and then we get in bed, and we sleep pretty soundly, right? I’m like, well, we’re not outraged. We’re just so used to it. I think part of it is like, “What can I do?” But it just really speaks to that we are all impacted. Whether you are a descendant of folks who may have been colonizers or descendants of folks who have been impacted by this history, at some level we have all internalized sort of these dynamics of ways of being and have sort of been complicit at some level in the way that it’s been.

I think when we begin to think about how we decolonize or how we heal from this, I’ll use the analogy of any sickness or disease, right? The first step is actually knowing that we have it and being able to identify how dynamics are operating in our lives and how either our acknowledgement and being proactive about doing something about it is helping or even if we choose not to, how that also is like a form of harm.

22:06

So the first steps are really taking note of what has happened in this country and what our family or our ancestors, that history, how that relates with the history of this country, and taking ownership or responsibility for that history because it’s gonna take all of us really coming together and owning the history that we’ve inherited and thinking about how we can begin to heal from that and to make the changes needed. So even taking that ownership and acknowledging the realities of what has happened in this country is a super hard step.

Rebecca Ching: Mm-hmm.

Edgar Villanueva: It didn't seem to be hard five years ago, but it’s even more challenging today when books are being banned from classrooms where we’re not allowed to even have these conversations and even that sort of acknowledgement of history is under attack, which is very, very unsettling for me since I truly, truly believe that the only way for us to move forward as a country and to have racial healing is to begin to acknowledge what has happened historically.

Rebecca Ching: Oh, gosh, okay. So a couple follow-up questions to that too. Thank you for that. What are, then, some after acknowledgements that we’re all breathing in? We all have the colonizing virus. We all have this and owning that and getting curious about just our surroundings and our story and how we benefited from it. What would be another, then, next step action? Whether it’s a small business owner, a leader in a company, a teacher, a therapist, what would be a small next step after that kind of awareness and ownership of what really has happened and is happening?

Edgar Villanueva: Several things could happen. What I’ve seen some examples of are institutions, for example, who begin to acknowledge their role historically and even companies around being complicit or even contributing to their racial tensions and trauma that we’re experiencing today. I often encourage folks to have some type of grieving, right?

Rebecca Ching: Mm-hmm.

24:15

Edgar Villanueva: When you begin to explore these questions in your own life, in your family’s life, in a place that you work, to acknowledge and understand that, “Wow, this great organization I work for has actually harmed or contributed to harm in the past,” we often will grieve that, and I think that’s a really important step before we jump to try to fix things that we have to allow a grieving process to happen. Grieving is something that people do in different ways, and it can manifest in different ways. Sometimes it sort of shows up in the form of doubt, like, “Oh, no! That actually didn't happen.” You know, “My great-great-great-grandfather was a good man --.”

Rebecca Ching: Denial.

Edgar Villanueva: Denial, right? Or anger. “Why are we even doing this? Why does this matter?” And so, it begins to show up in different ways, but I really think that when we begin to open wounds and bring truth to light, that grieving is so, so important.

Rebecca Ching: Mm.

Edgar Villanueva: If we don't feel bad about some of the things that have happened and a little bit maybe ashamed, then I don't know what to do with that. If you don't have the humanity to be like, “Oh, my god! This is horrible, and I feel terrible about it,” only that type of feeling or emotion that is evoked, I think, can help get us to the next place.

I’m very troubled when I see people refusing to just kind of feel anything about our past. “Well, that was so long ago!” And I’m like some of these things were so long ago, but there were also things that were very recent, and at least that the impacts of these things are still with us.

26:10

With my own community, when I think about the legacy of Native American boarding schools in America, the very last boarding school just closing in the late seventies, I was alive when it closed! I’m not that old, and I was alive. I have relatives and friends whose parents and grandparents experienced the atrocities of these boarding schools, and so, for any of us to dismiss ourselves from, “This was so long ago, has nothing to do with me --.” It’s not about blaming. I’m not on a witch hunt and looking for someone to blame or penal, disown. I think that, again, all of us have to take responsibility, and I love this country. I want us to be the country that we kind of set out and aspired to be, and I know the only way to get there is for us to come to terms with history. When we don't grieve it and acknowledge it, it just continues to fester --

Rebecca Ching: Yes.

Edgar Villanueva: -- underneath sort of the soul of our country, and we just see things getting worse instead of getting better. We’ve just got to rip the band-aid off and deal with the pain that kind of comes with that.

So I just wanted to say that because I think that we don't know how to grieve, and even as individuals, I’m like, wow. I see people suffer great loss, and they're back at work the next day.

Rebecca Ching: I know. I know.

Edgar Villanueva: I’m like take time. I think, collectively, the pandemic was really interesting because I think that was the first time where I’ve seen our country sort of experience this collective grieving and coming together.